It's time for Spiritual Awakening. There's not just one religion - there are thousands! After years of being concerned that too few voices，too few points of view were getting heard when it comes to spiritual paths and world religions，that the radio airwaves were not reflecting the diversity that really exists，I started producing my own programs，exploring the world of spirituality，comparative religion，mysticism，meditation，and books，bringing to the airwaves the gentle voices of saints，the wisdom of masters or mystics，world scriptures， sacred texts，the great spiritual traditions and classics of the East and the West. My name is James Bean.
My guest today is Supreme Master Ching Hai，environmentalist，humanitarian，peacemaker and spiritual teacher. Welcome to Spiritual Awakening.
* Nice to connect with you today.
Nice to see you again. Thank you.
* Yes，it's nice to be with you today. I am becoming optimistic that the world is beginning to understand the connection between diet，health，and climate change. All new ideas are resisted at first，of course. The first time a truth is spoken，it's regarded as heresy，but if it continues to be spoken and it really is the truth，it eventually will be embraced，perhaps reluctantly at first，but it will eventually prevail.
My sense is that there will be some additional traumatic events making the headlines，more glaciers melting，more earthquakes，droughts，mudslides and so on，but eventually even the most resistant to change will be convinced. I was debating with someone on Facebook recently about climate change，and said to them that some leaders are still in denial about climate change，but their grandkids won't be.
Supreme Master Ching Hai，you were one of the early voices，one of the few spiritual teachers in the world leading the way on this issue of diet and climate change，years ago back before this information was widely known by many. How did you come to adopt the vegan diet？
How？Yes. You know，my grandma practiced vegetarian. Actually，when I say 『vegetarian，』I mean 『vegan.』In Âu Lạc (Vietnam) we don't know much about cheese and stuff anyway. Yes？Except some children，babies，if their mother doesn't have enough milk，or some problem with the mother，then they took cow's milk. Yes？Yes. And all the Buddhist monks I met were all vegetarian. That was in my childhood. I studied also many contemporary scriptures especially Buddhism. It was from a world religion's doctrine.
And there is a voice always within us - you know，right，James？- that we should abstain from harm to others. Yes. And it's just often suppressed，the voice，due to circumstances and background. Otherwise，I think everybody knows vegan is the best for all of us and for the planet.
*Right. And how did you come to know of this link between the vegan diet and climate change？Is that really intuition，inner guidance，Knowledge from within during meditation，that there'd be this need to reach out to the world and to sound the warning if you will，you know，about the link between diet and the environment？
Yes. It's also first by intuition. You know，some days when I… Just say one day，yes，I meditated and suddenly I was startled by some real grave images and information that came flooding in. Yes. Like，okay， there's methane gas，there is carbon dioxide，there will be catastrophic consequences from the meat industry，for example，yes？Yes. And then，of course，I will do research to confirm the facts，you know how people need evidence and facts. Yes. They don't just believe you. (*Right.)
There is a law，anyway，of cause and effect. Even if we don't have intuition or if we don't want to listen to our intuition or inner guidance，then we still know that in this physical world，there is a law of cause and effect. There is physical evidence everywhere we turn. As the Bible says，"As you sow，so shall you reap，" and the Buddhist，Hindu，law of karma (retribution). Just sow an apple seed，for example，then we will have an apple tree，and then apple fruits. That's very simple.
In your new book 『From Crisis to Peace，』you mention， 『Due to all inhabitants of the world's good karma，this beautiful planet was created. But if it's all covered up by the new bad karma，then the planet and／or the inhabitants will perish.』Recently，we have heard you speak about ＧＱ，or God Quality， and that it is our unwise decisions which have covered up our God Quality. What does ＧＱfully mean？
ＧＱis God Quality，yes，the Light. That is the quality of God. That's why we must find the Light. We must find the source of the Light，which is God Quality and which is also our original quality. God Quality means the original，untarnished nature of the universal power of love. This power is inherent in all beings，humans and non-humans，even plants，trees，even rocks，minerals. The more ＧＱa being has，or recovered，the more loving，the more selfless，and more noble that being would be.
How can we improve our God Quality in order to bring the planet back to its original，beautiful state？
Yes，yes，yes. Simple: Be veg，go green，do good. And，of course， you know already， better still that we should get in touch with our source of power，of love and protection，through meditation on the Light. First，we have to be connected with the Light，the way you are. Yes？ The best and the fastest is the Light and Sound method，yes，which you yourself practice through a competent guide.
I also practice this inner God Light and Sound and show how to the worldwide people when they ask. (*Right.) Light is our essence，Light is God Quality. So，if we see the Light，if we're connected with the Light，then we are assured of our God Quality，not to be covered，and that we live with this daily. And we can even uncover more and more of this ＧＱwithin ourselves by the practice of the Light and the Sound combination.
*I have a copy of your new book， 『From Crisis to Peace』- I'll hold this up.
You are very up-to-date.
* I'm up-to-date. They're still warm; ink is drying! In the book， 『From Crisis to Peace，』you also plead with the world saying， 『How I really want to embrace the leaders and non-leaders，people of the world，and tell them，`Wake up. Wake up!' I want to embrace them and tell them，`Wake up，wake up now. Wake up，my love，wake up my friend. Save yourself.'』I understand that you believe all world leaders should help their citizens wake up by implementing the Vegan Law in their countries. Tell us about the proposed Vegan Law.
Yes，well，I do believe this，you know. I do believe that 『vegan』will save the planet，and I do believe that the government leaders，the world leaders，can bring it into fruition，make it into law even. We just need a little push from governments and the media to make it come true. People are ready. As I said，we have a voice，we have a voice within which tells us to be kind to all beings. There's no need to meditate even to feel the pain of others and of animals. Don't you think？No need. (*No.)
They have blood，and their blood flows out just like ours - red. And they scream，they agonize，just the way we do if we are hurt in the same ways. So，humans are inherently compassionate. I do know that and I do believe in that still. To kill anything，anyone，even animals，directly or indirectly，is not our nature. So Vegan Law should be implemented，because it's a loving reminder of all citizens to be peaceful within and without，live and let live. If we do not kill animals，then we will not kill man，and peace will be naturally achieved.
Nowadays，many countries already ban cruelty to animals to some extent. And I know for example，like in Italy - blessed be this country - you are entitled to rent a place without landlord's refusal because of your pets. They cannot refuse your rent because you have a pet. You know，in some country the landlord can refuse you outright because you have pets. (*Right.)
Yes. In Italy，no. No.
*It's forbidden. You can bring your pets right into the rental house and nobody can say anything. Yes. And anyone who sees animals，wild animals，injured on the road，or if they injured the animals，the wild animals on the road，they must take them to the vet for treatment，as by law. Yes？Just like humans. If they don't do it，they will be fined，they will be punished.
So Vegan Law is the mark of a more civilized society，methinks，when compassion or universal love is the norm - meaning the people therein are already above hatred and vengeance. Now，if people adhere by the Vegan Law，and if the governments implement it，I think that society already shows a great deal，a great leap forward，in the evolution. Yes，because we will be above hatred and vengeance，which is the mark of a higher level of conscience，when we are compassionate，yes，and have love for all beings.
* Sounds like Italy is further ahead. Perhaps the legacy of Saint Francis of Assisi and the love of animals，(Yes.) makes them a little further ahead，you know.
Yes. I love Italy. Yes.
*Yes. What steps could leaders take to bring in the Vegan Law and make it permanent？It'll be a big struggle probably in some countries，you know，the old way versus the new. But we'll all be working hard on this to make this happen.
Yes. We should work harder. You know，the media is one of the tools that the governments can use，like magazine，newspaper，TV，radio，internet，ads，you know，posters，flyers，grassroots information，to explain to people the harms of animal diets，because they're harmful. The animal diet is harmful to our health even. And the governments should subsidize only organic vegan，you see？- or vegan at least.
Best is organic vegan because it also absorbs the CO２in the air. Best is organic vegan production and farming. Give info to people，train people to go into this direction，encourage vegan supply shops and restaurants，café，bistro，etc.，etc… snack bars，yes，or even fastfood - and be a vegan example themselves，the leaders，yes，(*Sure.) and be open about their new，exciting，vegan lifestyle.
There's no use in being vegan and stuck in the closet. There's nothing shameful about being vegan. It should be a celebration of goodness and nobility and the greatness of that leader. Yes. I applaud and salute any leader who has gone vegan. Better still，they should be open about it so that other people will follow their examples. To be a leader is to be an exemplary torchbearer of the truth and of goodness，right，James？(*Yes. ) (*Hopefully，yes.
To encourage positive change.) Yes. The people would follow a leader，that's why they voted for them. Don't you think so？(*Right.) So… And this will offer a lot of new jobs even for people. Yes？Because nowadays，with the economic trouble and unemployment，and things like that，SoI think vegan and new，green energy will open a lot of new doors for employment - and it's exciting! And they should create even one special unit for the vegan trend. And for citizen's health reason，you see，tax-saving reason，world-saving reason， planet-rescuing reason - these are good enough already for any government to implement this Vegan Law. Yes？
*Right， the cost of healthcare，reducing the cost，yes.
Cost，yes，that we didn't even mention yet. You're right. You're right.
How much it costs，everything else. Yes？Now，smoking ban indoor and alcohol are even more difficult，you see，as people are addicted and nothing can replace alcohol or tobacco for them. You see？But the world government did it! They made it. See! (*Right. Yes.)
And nowadays，I saw one of the community buildings，they begin to even forbid even smoking outdoor and indoor as well， (Right.) even inside people's house，yes，private house. I am so happy. You see，people comply，you see？Governments made it. In many cases，alcohol bans were even successful also. You see，nowadays，alcohol is lessened everywhere and less accidents even，(*Right.) less heart attacks.
The result is evident everywhere. So，you see，people will comply if they are informed about what's good for them. They will know the government's best intention，genuine interest，in the citizens' wellbeing. It will work. We need the courageous and wise leaders，that's it. They have to get out of the root and do it.
*Yes. Like pollution laws and smoking and (Yes.) and drunken driving and all those，(Yes.) yes，it's very much like that. Yes. (*Yes.) It's done. It can be done. You see，look，the governments send people to war，and that's the law even. You can't not go to war when the government recruits you for war. You have to go，at a certain age. You know that，in many countries. (Yes.)
Then they go anyway，even to die in the foreign land，even not always have a good cause. People can still be talked into sacrificing their precious lives，which they have only one，for war. Here，you see，so now， Vegan Law is to live，live longer，live healthier，protect the environment，save precious rainforests and dwindling water resources，protect immediate lives，save money, boost economy，especially in our bankruptcy time.See？(*Right.) Now，the leaders should save the planet，bring about peace，through the vegan diet.
When humans stop killing animals，James，they will stop killing man. I can imagine all citizens will approve and be grateful to their governments for their wise Vegan Law. I am looking forward to that day. Pray that it comes soon. (*Yes，that's right.) You and I pray，James. (*Absolutely.) If nobody prays，the two of us pray. (*Right. Right.)
Of all the world leaders I know，you are one of the most optimistic. You seem to have so much faith in humanity when you say，quote， 『I do believe that our planet is on the threshold of constructive change for the better of all the inhabitants，including animals，trees，and plants.』This statement made me think about the animals. Tell us how the animals，birds，and fish are suffering because of climate change.
This is very difficult for me to，you know，to tell you how they suffer. In any case，you can always look into the internet or anyone can look into internet，research (*Yes.) to know how they suffer. And you know maybe more than I do，being in the mainstream media as you are，anyone can take a look into the news，the info on the internet，to know the state of suffering of animals，even en masse in the wild also. You see？
The cruelty we created by animal slaughtering extends far beyond their squeezy crate，far beyond the slaughterhouse. And it is not just the animals who are tortured during their short life and killed mercilessly，but also wildlife die by chemical fertilizer runoff，or die by suffocation，by lack of oxygen，in dead water etc.，etc.，which，again，are caused by our careless lifestyle，by our desire for animals' flesh and blood，which I think is not fit for humans' dignity. It is us humans who lose，big time，our inherent compassion quality，God Quality，Loving Quality，intelligent quality，spiritual quality，and health quality，and risk now losing our home planet.
So we might even lose the whole human race if we continue this way. There are even more sufferings awaiting us after our death even，if we don't stop our bloody，gruesome acts toward all animals and man. It's a lot of information but I cannot tell all this in a few minutes，so anyone who listens can please look into the then for more information.
*Right. And animals are very healing to human beings. You know，when we have pets and we're around those pets，(Yes.) they reduce blood pressure，they are fun to be around，they're very，you know… They make people happy. And perhaps animals can help heal the planet as well？
Yes，they can. They are doing it already. They have been doing it and they are doing it，and they will be doing it if we but let them. We have to let them live first，naturally. Protect their habitat and not domesticate or raise them more than the number absolutely necessary，and even then，just for their wellbeing only. Then they can have a chance to bless us，to heal the planet，and continue blessing us humans.
We must respect them as we want to be respected. I cannot keep repeating this often enough. Because why？- because，frankly speaking， many of them have higher consciousness，more Loving Quality，more God Quality，than many of us humans. That I know. (*Yes.) This is the concept that we must understand and bear in mind if we are to evolve further on spiritual level，or to be at least a grateful being for all the blessing and sacrifice that our animal benefactors quietly bestow on us and the planet.
* Well，I congratulate you on being such a positive influence in the world. You know，I'm noticing (Thank you.) there are vegetarians who follow various spiritual paths，gurus or teachers，who are beginning to switch from being vegetarian to becoming strictly vegan. I'm seeing this every day.
I'm one of those also - once following a lacto- vegetarian diet，but now have switched to vegan. So，you've helped to bring about a，what I call，a 『vegan awakening』in the world. There's a great awakening，and a lot of vegetarians are switching to vegan these days. (Yes.) I've done a lot of research on vegetarianism in the world religions，and veganism. (Yes.) There are passages of scripture in the writings of saints and mystics，(Yes.) in support of being vegan，vegetarian，in most of the world religions.
And most everyone on Earth is affiliated with one of these great world religions. Thus，the more vegan Buddhist movements，more vegan Hindu groups，Radhasoami groups，vegan Christian movements，the greater and greater the numbers of people will be switching to a vegan diet based on their religious connections. Convince… So that's really my strategy，convince the religious communities and the world will go vegan. How can we convince more spiritual groups to switch to vegan？
It's a very good strategy，James，very good. You're smart. Let's do it! You are doing it. Yes？We just hope more people will help to do the same or similar in their capacity. But，you know，I don't blame any of the humans. People are not well-informed，James. And concerning the vegetarian diet that you have followed，that must have been from maybe Sant Mat or Beas，yes？Most religious groups or teachers are originated from India. You know，right？
Blessed be that ancient land of sages and saints. I worship that land. You know，the people who follow a vegetarian diet are already good，very，very good，James，yes？As in India，especially in the old times，cows are loved and even worshipped as second mothers to children，not slaughtered for meat， like in other countries. Yes？And they give milk naturally，you see？They give milk naturally. So the lacto diet came from there. Yes？
The cows live in a natural environment. It's okay to take that kind of milk or the cheese from there if the cows just give lovingly and willingly，naturally. You see？And sometimes the cows have too much milk; they also have to give out some so that they feel more comfortable. Yes？(*Yes.)
The cows live there in a natural environment. Well，I'm not sure right now，at the moment，but when I was there，James，in India，I saw cows walking all over on the street，in the building compounds，and people let them be. And if the cows on the street are lying there，they just have to wait，or talk to the cow，tell the cow to move，yes，before their cars continue. You see，when I was there，it's not long ago，maybe almost ３０years ago now. Something like that. Yes，it's still like that. Yes？
And they were not overwhelmingly raised in great numbers like the way factory farming nowadays，with squeezy crates and cruelty treatment，forced fed multiple drugs，harsh machinely milked until they could not stand up anymore，then massacred mercilessly. This is not the way we should take dairy products. You see？That's what it is.
You see，the Indian people，they did not know this. This kind of treatment they never had experienced before. So，of course，in India they follow lacto diet，and it's normal. You see what I mean？Yes.
So we can understand why the people still follow a lacto-veg diet in some part of the world，or in India.
As in India，especially in the old times，cows are loved and even worshipped as second mothers to children，not slaughtered for meat，like in other countries. Yes？And they give milk naturally，you see？They give milk naturally. So the lacto diet came from there. Yes？The cows live in a natural environment. It's okay to take that kind of milk or the cheese from there if the cows just give lovingly and willingly，naturally. So，of course，in India they follow lacto diet，and it's normal. You see what I mean？Yes.
So we can understand why the people still follow a lacto-veggie diet in some part of the world，or in India. Not everyone knows about the horror of factory farming animals. So some vegetarians even eat eggs！That's bad. Egg is not a vegetable，is it？No. Egg industry，James，is another form of cruelty beyond our imaginations.
I just tell you，very short，because I can't bear it if I talk too long. If the chicks are males，for example，James，they will be thrown into a grinding machine- alive！- to be made into food for dogs or something. I saw a little chick in a show of the 『Cruelty to Animal』shows，he was wandering on the edge of the conveyor that would lead him to the grinding machine.
He was wandering so innocently on the edge，looking for Mama. My God！I broke down. I just broke down. I cannot go into more details because I cannot bear it. I will just be broken down again. Please，if anyone listens，just log on to for all the facts and info you wish to verify，or contact any vegan groups near you.
Contact ＰＥＴＡ，for example，international ＰＥＴＡ. There are things even that you also need to know before you buy the next animal products or food，because they are not only cruelty manifested，they are also poisonous. If you know what is in there，you wouldn't put it in your mouth or into your children's mouth. (*Right.) Now，to convince the religious community，we can send fact-checked info to all religious leaders.
We are doing that，James，as well，yes，(*Yes.) me and my colleagues，yes，my Association members. You know，we must have an association because the government demanded it，not because we want to have any association or official anything. But we have an association，and my Association members and I，we are sending these fact-checked info to all kinds of people - to world leaders，religious leaders，community leaders，to farmers，to slaughterhouse owners，etc.，etc. We are still doing it.
We cannot do everything in one day，two days; we continue. I wish I have done it all yesterday，but we have so much to do，James，so much to do. The more we do，the more work，and… But，you see，you are doing your part，luckily，and I'm grateful. You see？You give talks on radio… Also，other people can do the same or they can go grassroots，go on air，go on ＴＶ，like we do on Supreme Master Television.
But I don't feel like we are doing enough. Of course，because we are just a small group compared to the world population. And every vegan should also help. Please help. Help all of us. Help each other. Help us. Help the world. Help yourself. We need all the help we can to create a "wake-up，" strong wake-upcall and to maintain the trend. Yes. (*Yes.)
* Yes，you mentioned that it was due to the meritorious good karma (retribution) that makes it possible for souls to be privileged to incarnate here，and live on this beautiful Earth. (Yes.) It sounds like we have some important lessons to learn in order to evolve. Could you explain about karma (retribution) and the dangers that the world faces，if there's too much bad karma (retribution)，bad actions，in the world？
Thank you for asking，for the sake of your listeners. Karma is the law of cause and effect，or "as you sow，so shall you reap，" that we mentioned early on - meaning every action provokes a reaction，and some even cause chain reaction or domino effect. It is very logical and very scientific. We don't have to follow a religion or any meditation group，any guru，in order to even see this.
So we cannot go on creating bad karma (retribution) and then waiting for good result and not worry about its effect. It will come sooner or later. Up to now，humans have created and still are creating tremendous bad energy，you see，bad karma (retribution) - that means 『bad energy』- that twists around us like a chain，and it gets tighter at every passing moment so that maybe，at some point，we can't even escape.
We can see evidence everywhere now，that we suffer so much violence，wars，catastrophic disasters，everywhere. Almost every day we look on ＴＶ，there's a disastersomewhere in some country，one way or another，yes，or war or conflicts. We need intervention now，more than ever，from a force that is much stronger than this binding chain，to break it loose.
That power is the universal love within ourselves. We must reawaken it by actions that are in tune with this love. By loving all beings，respecting all creations of God，we will forsake vengeance and war，we will stop torturing and killing humans and animals.
Only then，James， only then can we overcome the opposite dark force，which we invited in，in the first place，and we even strengthen it by our unloving actions. Like attracts like，you know，very logical，very simple. If we want peace，we have to act in a way of peace. If we want mercy from Heaven，we have to act in a merciful way.
* Yes. I started doing more programs on vegan diet and peace issues Becausespirituality is so linked to… We need to have a planet to live on if souls are going to evolve or become more enlightened. We need to have a breathable atmosphere and a healthy planet to be on. (Right. Right. Right.) So spirituality just compels you to care or to be compassionate，be a BodhisatＴＶa of compassion，towards all life. (Okay，James. That's right.) Yes.
Continue your job. Thank you.
*Yes. I believe most everyone who has become familiar with the facts about climate change would be in agreement with the information presented in your new book， 『From Crisis to Peace，』which I have a copy of，and there is also a strong spiritual component in 『From Crisis to Peace.』Your teachings are based on compassion towards all life，and the principles of ahimsa，or non-violence，in thought，word，and deed. Communicating with followers of various world religions is，of course，what I do，
but there are so many ways people can get involved in changing the world，or 『being the change，』to quote Gandhi. What can each of us，what can all of the listeners or viewers of this program，do to "start a vegan trend，" as you suggest in your new book？How can we all pitch in，in different ways，you know，all of us？
Yes. Yes，we should all do. Everyone can print out info about vegan benefits and the harms of the animal diet，then pass it out，wherever，whenever，we can，of how，what，why，when，where to find veg food and how to make veg food. And I'm glad you're doing it，and many are doing it，and we are doing it，and pray that more will do the same，by whatever means they have，through internet…
Nowadays，it's more easy even. See，we have internet，we have all kinds of informationtools，yes，to use and to pass it out for people. We can write letters，or have group talks，school talks，school conference，open vegetarian/vegan restaurant，café，snack bar vegan supply store/company，plant organic vegetables，sell organic vegetables，ask the government to subsidize those endeavors，etc. Every help counts. It's time. It's time that we all must work fast to save lives in our world; and even save ourselves.
* Yes. You mentioned in the book about extraterrestrials，there are other vegan civilizations in the universe，and that's a subject I've been always quite interested in， ＳＥＴＩ，the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence. (Yes.) Do you think that that we're about to be contacted，or，you know，have…I don't know… some help from above，and by that，in addition to God，you can say 『help from above，』you know，from other intelligent life in the universe？
Did you see them coming？
*Not me，but I've interviewed scientists who are part of the ＳＥＴＩprogram. (What did they say？) They listen for extraterrestrial radio signals，clues，that there are others out there. And the search for alien life is really picking up，because they're starting to find planets out there，Earthlike，the size of the planets are like the Earth，(Yes.) in warm parts of solar systems and other stars. So they're starting to look for life.
And that that's really becoming a serious search right now. So some someday soon，they will find evidence of life，probably. (Probably. Probably，yes. Okay. ) Probably so. It's picking up pretty… The pace is picking up.
What is your question？That's what they're doing，yes，(*Yes.) but you think they're going to help us？No. I do not fully agree to this concept and expectation，(*Yes.) that the aliens are going to play a role in saving our planet and they are going to do it. No. I don't expect that. If they do，well，that would be a miracle，and it'd be lucky for us. But you see，you can see evidence of catastrophic disasters and wars and violence everywhere，but did you see any aliens who came？Any extraterrestrials who came and appear to help us？
* They're not going to pick up after us. That's our job as human beings to work for…
Yes. Yes，you're right. You're right. They can't interfere with our karma (retribution) also，you see？(*Yes.) We can't just continue walking into darkness and ignore the wise counsel of the elders or past and present masters，and just keep continue doing what we do，walking in darkness，don't turn around the way they told us，and expect that light is there when we keep walking in the direction of darkness. See？
We ourselves must do our part. You're right. They don't pick up after us，okay？We are not babies. (*Right.)We are an intelligent race of beings. We are supposed to be even the crown of the creation. Proud. So proud of us. Then，you see，even if we start to do things in the goodness direction，yes，then goodness will come. Like attracts like. This is always the talk of the town but nobody really understands，yes？
Like attracts like. Everybody says that on the tip of their tongues and they don't do the 『like』thing. We have to do the things like heavenly beings; then we will have Heaven. We have to be merciful; then we have mercy. Yes？We have to act like peaceful people; then we have peace.
Not only by praying on our knees or waiting for others to clean up our mess. Just like we should stop drinking alcohol if we want to stay sober and healthy， then we will be able，either to help ourselves or find extra help from experts. Unlike many of our planet's inhabitants，the aliens do not believe in flexing muscle to solve conflict and karmic problems.
They rarely do，rarely. (*Yes.) They know that it would not help much in the long run，James. Rather，people have to change their pattern of habit to live according to the universal law of love. This is so simple. So the aliens，as I think，guess，or intuitively know or talk to，they just let the spiritual masters do their job，like reasoning to humans by philosophy，by example，coaxing them to change their way of life.
Actually，it wasn't a change，it was just to go back to the original goodness that we are，see？But what a monumental job that is for any master at all since the beginning of time; you know very well because you study many religions. All teachers have a hard time; try to convince humans，most often at the cost of their lives. (*Yes. Yes.) Look at Jesus，what did he do？
What did he do to deserve being nailed on the cross？Look at Buddha，what did he do to deserve insults and attempts on his life，(*Yes.) and slandering his reputation，etc.，etc. All they did was just teach humans to be good，to be kind to each other，yes？- and elevated them to a higher spiritual standard. That's all they did. They harmed no one. They took nothing for themselves，yes. Not just Jesus，Buddha - all the masters do the same，the Sikh gurus... And what did they do？What do they have，for return？Nothing，except trouble，dangers，and losing their lives，their family members，etc.，etc. (*Right.) So，do you think anybody would like to come and help us？Yes，tell me.
* We're a tough crowd. Human beings are a (Very tough.) tough crowd to work.
Very tough，James. Sometimes，sometimes I'm driving on the street and look around me and I say，『Oh my God.』You know？Or go into supermarket and see all the bloody meat there and， 『Oh my God！where am I？』You know？
What can I do in this kind of world？And so many things that you saw on ＴＶthat it doesn't seem befitting the children of God's behavior and actions at all. (*Right.) I… Sorry，I don't want to criticize. Forgive me. Continue your questions.
* The extraterrestrials，where do you think they're coming from and what is their role？
They are not all aliens，the 『extraterrestrial』that we call them. Some of them came from under our planet. Yes，because in the planet there is empty space，inside our planet，empty space，and the people live down there，it's about ４，８００，０００-something，the population down there，and they're more technologically advanced than us，yes. So，they came from，also，from other planets and inside the empty space of our Earth，you see？They're good neighbors.
But what can they do to help us in any case，if we don't first help ourselves？They might be able to deactivate nuclear bombs here and there，or avert a tsunami，but how long can they continue to do that if we continue to create more and worse disasters with our 『tsunami』actions？We destroy huge forestland，drown，torture，maim，murder billions of innocent，harmless helpers，like our animals co-inhabitants，daily. They are our helpers. But these acts，aren't they not tsunami-like destruction？
Well，if we stop all that before anyone can help us to stop the destruction of our Earth，why do we destroy our house and wait for help？Suppose they will take pity on us，and even take us to their planet or home，hopefully，would we be willing to leave this Earth where we are used to and attached to？Would we be willing to adjust to their way of life，even if it's better，but different？Would you，James？Maybe. Maybe you and I will go to a different planet. But not everyone would like.
* Yes. And certainly we would need to change our ways here on this planet (Yes.) and make this planet a nice place to live.
Yes. You see，we can't even forgo a piece of meat，with all the poisons in it，on earth. Think we can leave other things behind or forgo them to live with so-called "aliens，" yes？They might not have meat，alcohol，or any of those poisons that we crave！They might not even look like us. Then we might blame them，fight with them，or make war on their planet. Who knows？Scary，James. They're scared of us，truly. (Probably.)
They told me they're scared of humans. (*Right.) Yes. We are making war here already in our familiar environment. We're killing our neighbors and friends，next door，next country - this next door，right？(Yes.)
Trust that we won't make war in a strange world？I shall be blunt and honest with you，James. Here，with，well，more or less primitive technology and we are already using them like toys to kill real people，real beings，to maim，to kill，to destroy ourselves and the environment，and so many species on the planet，from the high sky to the deep sea，like nothing matters，like they don't feel pain at all.
Now，if we get a hold of those high-tech secrets from the aliens，imagine，James，what more murderous weapons we will invent to even destroy their race or make interplanetary war！Trust that we can handle it all and make peace with them？Even if the aliens can interfere and help us，do you think they're not afraid to do so？Tell me，yes or no？(*Yes.) Are they？Will you be afraid to help us？Tell me，James.
* Yes. Hopefully they follow the Star Trek prime directive and not interfere with us or get too close to us.
Yes. They're afraid，yes.
* They want to stay out of trouble，(Yes.) stay away from us until we mature.
Yes. Shall we even blame them if they won't even go near us openly？Okay. (*Yes.) What can we do，James？Even if they have high tech，yes，yes，more advanced，more civilized，but we have weapons of multi levels of lethal，murderous，dangerous killing instruments，everywhere; stacked，stuffed，exposed and hidden in all corners of our planet，and continue to develop more and more，mightier and mightier，more and more dangerous ones，you know，weapons.
So you think they have nothing better to do than forever go hunting for weapons to disable，to destroy，or to annihilate，for us，or can they even？- without disturbing our planetary pattern or endangering lives on Earth，yes？They might have shown us some example here and there，but it's up to us to wake up，yes，shake off the dust of our ignorance and start making life a Heaven for all. Don't you think，James？
* Yes，hopefully we can learn to get beyond war (Yes.) and conflict. (Right.) What can we do？What needs to be done to get beyond the idea of war？
What can I do？ The people's consciousnesses have to be more elevated. The spiritual leaders have to try harder to enlighten themselves，more than what we are right now，more enlightened. And then the spiritual leaders should enlighten the leaders of the world more，if the leaders of the world are ready.
You see，we have many things，even more better technologies that help our planet already，and that even being stopped，because of some business giants who do not want to lose their influence and their income，their profit，if some other things better are on the market. We should have had free electricity long ago.
We should have had free medical care long ago. We should have cured many diseases long ago，yes. But we，many，don't want to do that，because - profit. We should never have hunger in the world，but we still do，because - profit. We should not have any more war on the planet，we should not even develop any more war weapons，but we still do because？You know，profit. That is the problem with us. We could be more advanced than we are right now.
*I'm very concerned these days about the possibility of war between India and Pakistan，and at the moment，see this as one of the most troubling developments in recent decades. There are other "hot spots" in the world of course，but these two countries are armed with nuclear weapons mounted on hundreds of missiles pointed at each other，on standby alert，ready for launch in minutes.
There is the same danger of false alarms，radar errors or mistakes as there were between the US and USSR for many decades，you know，a flock of seagulls (Yes.) being misinterpreted on radar as an incoming attack when it's not. (Yes.)
Even a small number of cities being attacked would impact the environment around the world. We would all be affected. (Yes.) It would cause a global food shortage，a famine and be a major setback for the vegan diet in the world. All the smoke in the atmosphere would make global cooling the issue instead of warming.
A year without a growing season would mean crops failing. People would be trying to feed themselves anyway they could and nations would no longer wish to export rice or other foods，if they could no longer feed their own populations. (Right.) As I see it，the vegan movement，and a positive vision for the future of humanity，are linked to peace in the world，preventing major wars. We're all going to be affected by any major war like that. (You're right.) What can we do to work for peace in the world？
Yes，James. I'm asking the same question. (*Right.) Yes，well，you know，I don't understand this. Because… I don't understand war at all. I also don't understand how people can make war with each other，yes.
How can they not stop all this senseless killing？Because the person you kill looks exactly like you. Maybe a little bit different in color of the skin，but he's you，he's human. So how can they not see the light and keep creating darkness，these war-makers？Yes. There are many causes of wars，but I think it all boils down to ignorance，James. You know，people are being given false promise，or brainwashing or false interpretation of doctrine，and 『the blind lead the blind，and both will fall into the pit.』
The people who make war for any reason are really pitiful people，because they have been misled，I think. I am sure they have been misled，misinformed，mis-educated since they were young，already. But，despite all that， if everyone，or the vast majority，now turn at least back to benevolent lifestyle，then the war-like atmosphere，war energies，will die down，and peace will be emerging like a miracle. Because the killing，injuring energy will disperse with time.
If we choose to go in the opposite direction，then we will arrive at a different destination，that's for sure. You see？If we want to go south，we have to go south. We cannot keep going north and then expect to see the southern city. Of course，if we keep going forever，maybe. You see，all the meditators should intensively meditate for peace and a vegan world.
It will help to some degree，more or less，depends on one's level. I，myself also，right now meditating day and night，trying to inject some more spiritual blood into the deficit energy bank of the world. But I am not always free even to do that all the time. I do as much as I can.
I minimize every other activity，unto the minimum，so that I can meditate as many hours as I can. I should meditate like，at least，１３hours a day - thirteen，one，three - but sometimes I couldn't make it，maybe １０hours，maybe １１，maybe less. You see，because I'm not always free，with all the demands of the world.
I can do maybe ６０of the intended retreat every day，and I'm not very pleased with it. I'm worried about the world，to tell you the truth. But everybody who knows meditation should intensify their effort，with the goal to create peace on this planet，and a vegan diet，a vegan planet. Vegan planet is a peaceful planet，you see？(*Yes.) One thing leads to another，yes. (*Yes.) Hopefully，we will make it，James，with everyone…
*A diet of kindness leads to kindness in the world.
Yes，everybody must help.
*Yes. Well，your book ends on a very positive，hopeful note about the future of humanity entering into a Golden Age，or what some have called Sat Yuga or Eden on Earth，the Golden Era. Will we see the beginnings of a Golden Age during our lifetimes？We're all waiting. Will we see this happening，(Yes.) or clues or the beginnings？
Yes，we see some. (*The beginnings.) We see some，and we hope to see more，James. I mean，we see some in some corners，but the other corner is still boiling. It's just like a house is burning and you have been able to douse it out in some corners，and in some other corner，is still burning or still smoldering.
But we hope to have more，James，if we deserve it. (*Yes.) But it all depends also on humanity's direction，now and in the future. As more and more people join the vegan trend，the more and more hope we will have，see？
As we have discussed before. Right now，we hope that humans wake up fast，and fast，and realize the house is burning and know that organic vegan is the sure and quickest way to cool down the fire and save the world. If we look into all the religions of the world，all the old prophets，masters，they all say to us the same，『Like attracts like，』 『Sow the seed of love and compassion，and then you will have it yourself.』
So we hope our planet and people will survive，first of all，by turning back to their own compassionate nature: be vegan. That means love for all beings. Then Golden Age，not invited，still comes，if we continue with our benevolent，vegan，compassionate lifestyle. Even if we don't invite the Golden Age，it will crawl into our house. So I hope I have answered your question to your satisfaction and I hope I'll be of some help to your listeners. And thank you for all this.
* Well，certainly it is my pleasure to be speaking to you today and to be reading your new book，『From Crisis to Peace.』(I'm glad you like it.) And spreading the word about this，and yes，we can all step in there，personally，individually，we can all have our own individual Golden Age.
*You don't have to wait for the rest of the world: we can jump in right now.
That's right，that's right. You know，to me I have my Golden Age all the time. (*Right. Right.) To most of my Association members，they also think they are in the Golden Age because they meditate a lot and they feel calm and peace，and whatever they wish comes true. So they think they're in control of their life and everything goes well for them and peaceful. Yes，so we can have our own pocket Golden Age. That's right，James. It's a lot of things that we could discuss，but we all have our other things and time (*Right.) so maybe next time.
*Right. Well，it's been great speaking with you today，and it's great having this opportunity.
Great to see you. (*Yes.) Great to see you again，James.
You look younger than last time I saw you.
*Well，I hope I am going in the right direction. Yes.
You are. You are. But you're very busy，very busy. (*Yes！Well…) Doing researching and writing for radio and hosting the radio.
*Yes. We're trying to keep up with everything and…
You are faring well？
*I do believe in what I am doing，and that's what keeps me…
Yes，I know. That's why，yes. That's what keeps you going. (*Yes. Yes.) Yes，you have to believe in what you do，otherwise there's no sense of doing it. (*Yes.) Like a job，it's not.
*Right. So I fast or, I… don't spend much money and just...
Understand，understand. Don't go out and no vacation，nothing.
*You know me well.
Yes，almost like what I'm doing. It's just that I am also a frugal person. (*Right.) I only spend what's absolutely necessary. For myself，you know，just one or two meals a day，simple vegan. It's not much that I spent on myself. Everything is for the world，for others.
*Yes，I always have felt led to do radio and to read，you know，Kabir poetry，(Yes.) and all of these beautiful saints of the East. And so…
Yes，but you must meditate also. (*I do.) Must meditate. Yes，(*Yes. I do.) so that you can balance out the karma (retribution) that you take in while you're doing this，because you don't do this… (*Yes.) Nothing is for free in this world. (*Right.) If you want to do something good for the world，you know，the price we have to pay，spiritually - I mean，spiritually. So do take care that you meditate enough. (*Right.) Four hours if you want to stay above the water.
*Yes，good to know.
One hour on the Sound at least，and three hours on the Light. Okay？Or half and half. If you can do two and two，it's good. I'm only telling you as a friend，not as a guru. You know all this already，but because you do more for the world，you have to meditate more，James.
*Just to keep this magical，you know，keep the Divine grace coming？
Yes，otherwise you'll be in deficit.
*Yes，yes. I see what you're saying.
Yes，okay？Remember that. Saving others is good，but you have to also be able to swim back. All right？
*That's the thing.
Yes，four hours，meditation. Okay，love？(Yes.) Well，if you don't believe me，you go ask your guru，and they'll tell you the same. Did they tell you？Four hours.
*Well，two. Four hours is a good goal to have.
You must try. (Yes，four hours.) Not two-and-a-half hours. Two-and-a-half hours is for ordinary people (*I see what you're saying.) who is doing nothing for the world，just taking care of their own self or families and job. (*Yes.) But for the person who wants to do things for the world，at least four hours.
*That's a good principle to follow，you know.
Not principle. It's a must.
You have to do it because otherwise you'll be depleted. (*Yes，I see what you're saying.) Because if you want to spread this to the world，that means you will be saving some souls，and the bad karma (retribution) will be more on you than normally，do you understand？(*Yes. Yes.) I guess you are not so often in contact with your master，so I am just trying to remind you.
*Right. Yes，that's a very good thing，to increase the amount of meditation.
Yes. So that you stay well and balanced and healthy and even-headed. Because if you keep giving without earning enough，then you'll be in trouble. Just like money，James. (Exactly.) Yes，if we spend more than we earn，then we'll be in trouble. See what I mean，yes？(Right.) Meditate more，okay？(Right.) It's not good enough that we do good and then we will be good，no. Maybe in Heaven later，but in this lifetime we must balance the spiritual energy and the world energy that surrounds you. The more you want to help the world，the more you have to meditate. That is the problem. But the more we want to help the world，the more we're busy already. You see what I mean？(That's true，that's true.) That's paradoxical，but what to do？
Okay，James，your master doesn't tell you that if you，for example like，his contact person or his representative，they have to meditate more？Or the person who helps the master in the ashram to do correspondence and all that，they have to meditate four hours at least. Didn't your master remind you？
*No，I haven't heard that before. Of course，the teacher that initiated me years ago passed on.
Passed on. But you have other masters，yes. Okay，now if your master has passed on，then you have to contact with the successor of your master，(*Right.) to be more refreshed and reconnected. Okay？(*Right.) Your master will take care of you anyway even if he passed away，that's for sure，yes，but physically，intellectually，we need sometimes to be refreshed，you know，be in contact，supported spiritually，mentally，psychologically，okay？
*Right. That's why I am always very friendly.
*I'm very friendly. Very open.
You're a friend. That's good. It's good，it's good.
*…from Light and Sound，Light and Sound teachings.
Yes，must meditate on it，okay，because that's our essence，that's our God Quality. God Quality is manifested in this world as the inner Light and Sound，the lightless Light，the soundless Sound. And this will help us to be able to overcome all troubles in this world and to stay balanced and spiritually uplifted. At the same time that we want to help the world，we must also continue to help ourselves. Yes，(*Yes.) you can visit the successor of your master，or talk to your master，also fine，but meditate more.
*Good advice for me，yes，four hours，four hours.
Try to make it.
*Really，I will. I will remember.
Try to make it. Yes，really true，one hour on the Sound at least，(Yes.) and then the other，Light. You try to make it another ３hours. (*Yes.) Yes，otherwise if you don't have to do radio，you don't have to try to help the world，then you don't need to meditate so much; two-and-a-half hours，as your master said，is enough. (*Yes.) Normally，yes.
*That's the standard，yes. (The standard. Yes.) Yes，the standard，but yes，I agree that，yes，we do need to build up that spiritual charge and live in that level of grace in order to change the world for the better，help people，help others.
Yes，but you have to be strong，you see？(*Yes. Yes.) Have to be strong. That's why the more you give，the more you must strengthen yourself，yes.
*Right. Right. Good advice.
No，no. It's not an advice，it is a must，James. Your master didn't know you were going to do radio and help the world，so he didn't tell you，of course.
Yes，but if you ask the successor of your master，he will tell you the same，the same as I told you. We need more energy to give，you see what I mean？
Yes，that's what it is，James. If you push just a car of ２０kilograms and you don't have to use so much energy，but if you push like ５０kilograms，then you have to use extra energy，see？Same. If you want to help the world，you have to stay connected，more strong，strong，taking more from the bank，you see？- because you want to spend more，(*Yes，right.) like money，you want to spend more，then you have to take more from the bank in order to have it.
*Have enough spiritual charge，blessings.
Your bank account must be more in abundance in order to give，otherwise you might be in trouble. Nothing big deal，maybe sick or ill，or in financial difficulty or (*Very true.) cannot talk or whatever. Okay，be strong，right. Thank you for inviting me today.
*Absolutely. Well，thank you for your assistance and for speaking to me today. It's great to share these goals of (Yes.) Vegan Law and working for good.
Yes，we are friends. (*I'm working for the good.) We are friends. (*Absolutely.) we are friends，we do the same stuff. That's what friends are，you know，look in the same direction.
And I wish you all the luck，okay？And I pray for you.
*I very much appreciate this.
Pray your master to bless you more so that you can continue your noble work. I'm sure he's blessing you，but you have to take the blessing. Sit four hours so that he can bless you more. (
*Right.) Understand，love？Yes，sit. (*I do. That's a very good，very good…) Sit so that you can receive more，and then you can be stronger in here. All right.
*Right. I believe Gandhi said something like that once，too.
*『I have so much to do today that I have to meditate more.』
*Gandhi said something，yes，to link meditation with doing things in the world.
Yes，yes，yes，yes，yes. The more we meditate，the more wisdom and strength we have，then the more efficient we are in whatever job we do. Well，especially like your job.
*It's all Divine grace.
* I live with Divine grace.
Yes，that you are right，you're right. Okay，James，see you then.
*Namaste (I greet you in God).
Namaste. Be blessed，be loved.
Pray to your master to help you every day，yes？Don't forget him.
*No，no. Thank you.
Thank you. Bye.